Unbelievable.

CJJ;8879 wrote: I suppose I agree about the drugs, but it is so much more unpallatable someone strangling another person than slipping them a pill.

I doubt whether the 13 year old will ever suffer any consequences, unless they have a conscience, as the defence will just prove that they didn't know what they were doing.

As for the idea that kids of today are no worse than in my day, I don't subscribe to that either. Each generation sees an escalation of boundaries and the pushing of what is acceptable, it also sees the innevitable desensitising of the general public. I don't believe that my generation were angels, but what I see nowadays really makes me think that we are descending into the pits of hell.

The chicken and egg scenario of the media will always be open for debate. Are they simply reporting on something that is happening, or is the reporting making it happen?

Topper Harley. :yesnod:

I agree that it is more unpalletable but only because we are being forced to see it via the media, as we both agree it has been happening for centuries, if anything these kids are going retro!

I did mean their conscience

I don't think that, fundamentally, the behaviour of children has changed for centuries, in that they are always doing dangerous acts and thrill seeking in ways that will always be a risk to their safety and life. As a generation we will always believe that the generation after is 'worse' then us...this is because we looking at them with adult eyes. The things we did as kids were no doubt looked at with the same disapproval by our preceding generation as we look at the current crop...this is why, although juvenile crime and misbehaviour is down all across the board, we somehow believe that the current generation of youths is 'worse'. It is a catch 22 which will be forever unfolding IMO.

The media has the power to bring this to our attention, which makes it seem far worse then it realistically is...they use terms such as 'will cause countless deaths' which of coarse it not actually saying anything at all! Good news never means good ratings!

I suppose what I am trying to say is that although this is shocking the only reason we think it is worse is because it is in our faces via the media whereas the acts of previous generations children (arguably as bad if not worse) were kept behind closed doors as the ability to widely report has not been there...

CJJ;8879 wrote:
The chicken and egg scenario of the media will always be open for debate. Are they simply reporting on something that is happening, or is the reporting making it happen?

Topper Harley. :yesnod:

i'm going to thrown my two cents in and try and sound educated at the same time...

your quote nicely brings us to the heisenberg principle, naturally the media affect what the report on... "Post hoc, ergo procto hoc" as our roman friends would say. the question is do they do so in a bias way? to make money or influence people? well thats up for debate

but i give you an example

recently much has been made about a new "legal high" from a drug i cant remember the name of... anyway there was some statistics that i cant remember (well there goes my thing about being educated and/or having a finally tuned memory) anyway they were making an ENORMOUS fuss on radio one about this drug making it sound like every young person on a night out was taking this potentially lethal drug

a rough idea of the numbers were 75% of 18-25 year olds had tried this drug and 30% use it regularly on a night out


they failed to mention on radio one that the survey which produced those statistics was printed in clubland magazine (as i later found out from the BBC news website) the mag specializes in advertising and recommending rave and candyland clubs around the uk and well know "chav breeding spots" on the content...

BBC Radio one (the BBC i believe being much less bias than many news outlets) made a 2 hour special discussing the drug, broadcast live on air to the nation this broadcast was about something which was barley evan a problem to 95% of the nation and the people polled would likely as not be taking other drugs if not this one.... waste of time but there you go

my point is....

if you asked the readers of Max-Power magazine how many did burnout's 95%+ would say they did... 50% would probably say they did it daily... so why aren't we clouded in tyre smoke when we walk down the street?

because numbers lie!!!! and the media seems to conveniently forget this when said statistics produce a good story

been a Government and Politics and history A-Level graduate i always like to see the source before I evan consider the quote/statistic/overblown crap been spouted by the media

:rant:

The Prometheus;8880 wrote: this is why, although juvenile crime and misbehaviour is down all across the board, we somehow believe that the current generation of youths is 'worse'. It is a catch 22 which will be forever unfolding IMO.

A debate worthy of it's own thread.

We could compare crime figures over generations, but it would only be accurate if the judicial system was the same throughout the period. I doubt whether 2 11 year olds would escape virtually untouched after torturing 2 others, and where asbos are something to proud of.

Of course we could go back to Victorian times or further where child murder and pickpockets were the order of the day. Very violent times, a lot of bullying, fighting and gangs, but even then I cannot see that any of that takes away the image of a child throttling his/her friend for fun.

I guess I started this thread to make parents aware of the problem. I would rather be accused of being drawn in by the media if it helped to save one life, rather than thinking kids will be kids.

The Prometheus;8880 wrote:
The media has the power to bring this to our attention, which makes it seem far worse then it realistically is...they use terms such as 'will cause countless deaths' which of coarse it not actually saying anything at all! Good news never means good ratings!

I suppose what I am trying to say is that although this is shocking the only reason we think it is worse is because it is in our faces via the media

sort of made my point for me there mate :yesnod:


as for the kids doing this.... if they are doing it voluntarily/or evan to themselves there likely mentally subnormal anyway and a few less brain cells wont hurt

the ones that die will be likely as not morons and evan more mentally sub normal than the ones who do it for kicks and are probably idiots along the same lines as those who take drugs (proper drugs mind you I'm discounting alcohol and such) in that they were basically "too stupid to live"

the above comment is probably going to annoy some people but it's called the darwinian process, plain and simple and why i don't worry about chavs taking over the world... their simply too stupid... were an intellectual spices and have grown not because of our strength or speed or such but because were smarter than other species... we get smarted because the dumbest of our lot die out, 10,000 years ago it was because they couldn't make a sharpe spear as good as the next bloke so they got eaten by a tiger... now its because they inject themselves with crap because there too stupid to know better



saying that CJJ your right to be very worried about thoes who do this sort of thing (and drugs) to "fit in" to stop been bullied and other things... it's an extension of learning to smoke at school "because everyone's doing it"... simply that with smoking death takes longer to have full effect

CJJ;8882 wrote:
I guess I started this thread to make parents aware of the problem. I would rather be accused of being drawn in by the media if it helped to save one life, rather than thinking kids will be kids.

sadly the likelihood is that the parents of the kids who are doing this don't give a dam anyway...

Adam-MGTF;8881 wrote: your quote nicely brings us to the heisenberg principle, naturally the media affect what the report on... "Post hoc, ergo procto hoc" as our roman friends would say. the question is do they do so in a bias way? to make money or influence people? well thats up for debate

not to be big headed but i think that sounds rather smart

i love these threads btw... makes me miss politics when we used to have really good debates

I'm actually with you on Darwin.

I have to say that I am lucky enough that I always had the confidence to do my own thing. I am not saying that I wasn't shallow and needy trying to get approval from my peers, but I new where to draw the line and a lot of the time went my own way.

I never even smoked, I just didn't fancy it.

So maybe I am the odd one out and led a sheltered life while all around me were getting high and strangling each other. :dunno:

CJJ;8886 wrote: I'm actually with you on Darwin.

I have to say that I am lucky enough that I always had the confidence to do my own thing. I am not saying that I wasn't shallow and needy trying to get approval from my peers, but I new where to draw the line and a lot of the time went my own way.

I never even smoked, I just didn't fancy it.

So maybe I am the odd one out and led a sheltered life while all around me were getting high and strangling each other. :dunno:

we should start a club... never even tried smoking... they smell horrible and that was all the encouragement i needed to avoid them before i evan learn't of the horrible health effects

I've always done my own thing... i don't follow football because i don't like it and don't pretend otherwise because everyone else likes it (for example) nor did i ware nike air max at school because there were "cool" to 99% of the year

having said that something that annoys me allot is people who go miles out of their way to be different simply to prove there "not normal" and "don't fit in a box" (as they point out on their myface accounts)... if your fashion is you enjoy waring piercing through your nose, and/or other body parts and painting your face white and lips black... 100% fine and i realize often your clothing taste reflects the music you listen to etc (i have pictures from when i was 16 in skinny fit jeans because i listened to franz ferdinand... and yes i looked like a prat)
but dressing a certain way to try and avoid being normal and to stand out annoys me... i grew up in a wheelchair and the amount of times i would of given my left arm not to stand out would stagger you... don't do it to make a point its just... pointless, be yourself... don't be something else because your mad at "the establishment"..... i dress in "trendy" clothes from topman and river island... many will say im a sheep and look like everyone else... but i reckon i look good and so do women which is more to the point ... im still myself weather i ware a mankini or a pair of river island jeans, topman knitwear and a USC suit jacket!

i seem to have gone off on a tangent again don't i?

anyway

I still am shallow and needy... so i drive a open top sports car to show off and deiced to throw in a 300+bhp engine in the vain attempt to win approval of my online friends... :err:

and as for the sheltered life... if living in a wheelchair through my adolescence meant i got a good education and avoided the drugs and/or small social gatherings involving delirious asphyxiation's for the general entertainment then all i can say is thank god for andylokin spondylosis!

Funnily enough, I hate football too.

I think the funniest thing I have heard is a young lad at work who dresses as he does because he wants to be different. He wears all black, beanie hats, piercings everywhere you can imagine and has an attitude a mile wide. The funniest thing is, he looks like al the others that dress like that in their Goth/Scene kid way. He doesn't even realise that he has tried so hard not to get sucked into wearing a "uniform" he is actually wearing one.

CJJ;8897 wrote: Funnily enough, I hate football too.

I think the funniest thing I have heard is a young lad at work who dresses as he does because he wants to be different. He wears all black, beanie hats, piercings everywhere you can imagine and has an attitude a mile wide. The funniest thing is, he looks like al the others that dress like that in their Goth/Scene kid way. He doesn't even realise that he has tried so hard not to get sucked into wearing a "uniform" he is actually wearing one.

exactly!!!!


as for football one nice thing about not being able to stand the pointless exercise so depressingly termed "the national sport" is that when people ask me how X team did (especially when I'm at work behind a bar) and i reply with "i don't know i cant stand the game"... their face is very entertaining...

like i just told them i come from London... a small village on mars just outside the capitol city... 'wibble'

anyway there is nothing i like about the game.... and that a footballer (not sure which one but they mentioned it on top gear) won sports personality of the year instead of button is infuriating... this other guy didn't win anything... didn't excite the populous in the way button did... he didn't evan have a speech! but because everyone loves football he won

and don't get me started on Carl Fogarty, a 4 time world champion who never got in the top 5 in that ridiculous farce of a TV show

Hmm football. I like to drop in the occasional "Overpaid bunch of arrogant, self worshipping gits who wouldn't know real work if it fell on them". That usually gives a few moments of silence, as if I had just produced proof that god doesn't exist.

CJJ;8904 wrote: Hmm football. I like to drop in the occasional "Overpaid bunch of arrogant, self worshipping gits who wouldn't know real work if it fell on them". That usually gives a few moments of silence, as if I had just produced proof that god doesn't exist.

sounds about right! the best one is when some knowledgeable young idiot asks you your informed opinion on weather or not

"the gunners should sign twitty dipsioso from the magpies"

and i reply with something like...

"why would you want to shoot magpies? you can't even cook them and if you've got twitty dispsioso you should go see you GP"


i then walk off and pull a pint for somone else while they try and figure out weather or not i've just insulted them :whistle: