HGF for the second time

Hello everyone, my first post despite being a member for 8 years. All my previous issues have been answered by the knowledgeable people on this forum.

I am about to replace the head gasket on my wife's 53 plate TF 1.6 cool blue for the second time, last done in 2010. I took the car off road to do a full service and a cam belt replacement, its only done 10k miles since the head gasket was replaced. However after rotating the engine by hand coolant was pumped out of no4 cylinder which really peed me off!

If my memory serves me right there was less information then than there is now. For instance I didn't then know about liner heights, however I installed, again if I remember right an "upgraded gasket and bolts".

Now I understand which type of gasket to install depending on liner heights. I have not removed the head yet but assuming my liners are 3 thou or more and all the same I can fit an MLS gasket so which to go for?

I would favour the latest N series gasket but does it require the latest oil rail and bolts?
Can I use the 10.5 bolts with the standard rail? I ask because I have read that it is a very fiddly job to replace the rail.

Also if I have to use the Elastomer gasket have these been upgraded to ensure they wont fail again?

Many thanks
David

Hi . There are mixed views on the original Elastomer gaskets vs the multi layered N series one. I have only used the up rated N series type . The first was on an MG ZR where I did indeed fit the uprated oil rail . The second one was and still is on my MG TF . On the TF I didn't bother fitting the oil rail as I had heard that it was an unnecessary ( not to mention costly ) item to replace . This was done back in 2015 and the car has covered around 17k and I have had no problems since . I was told only yesterday that the Payne Elastomer gasket is far more resilient than the original MG/Rover bathroom silicone sealant effort that these engines were originally built with . As long as your liner heights are in tolerance the Elastomer should be okay .
I now await an avalanche of criticism from the good people of The T bar . :yesnod:

John

Thanks for that, useful information. So when I get the head off, hopefully tomorrow, I will measure my liner heights.
I think I will buy from DMGRS they seem to be the best value.
One further question did you use the newer high tensile bolts?

I've spent today fighting with the manifolds so looking forward to an easier day tomorrow

David

OK so tomorrow has arrived 24hrs late.

I have removed the head to find that I did indeed fit an MLS gasket. There are no obvious signs of failure.

Today I have cleaned both the head and the block and, subject to further checks, I have found that the head is flat so no need to skim. But the liners are not over 3thou in fact they are 2thou so it looks like I was badly advised back in 2010. I need to sort out a more accurate straight edge to be sure.

Also I have found that 3 of the 4 camshaft seals have failed, that's not very good considering the engine has only done 40k miles

David

2 of my camshaft seals recently failed at circa 45K......

It is mandatory to fit new bolts and yes I did .

Just an update for any looking at this thread.

My liners dictated that I have to use the elastomer gasket so I ordered a complete gasket kit including the cam shaft seals.
I had the head very lightly skimmed and washed along with the cam carrier.

I am replacing the head bolts not because they need to be replaced as they meet the Rover specs for reuse, but I am not 100% convinced on the quality of those I used last time.

All the valve stem seals have been replaced and the valves tested for any leaks. Tomorrow I will be assembling the cam carrier a job that needs some care as according to the manual I only have 20 minutes to get everything in place and torqued down.

David

Good luck with the rebuild. Please excuse the very silly question: when you mentioned the choice of head gasket is driven by the height of the liners are they slightly above or slightly below the surface of the block ?

Little update...

Gasket choice was based on liner height 3thou and above and all cylinders the same go for an MLS gasket, but mine were less than 2thou more like 1 to 1.5 so I have to fit an Elastomer gasket. (its worth noting that a tiny build up of carbon on the liners caused a huge error in the height measurement.)
By the way measuring this is no easy task, I found that you need a good straight edge (i used a slab of marble to calibrate mine) which should be put across one cylinder liner. Doing this on a jacked up car whilst leaning over and using two hands is a little tricky.

So today I have installed the cam shafts and carrier, hopefully I have added enough gasket to ensure a good seal and not too much to risk blocking oilways. I had forgotten how horrible that sealant is, its difficult to lay a a consistent bead from the tube and then it is not easy to level it out, in the end I used my finger to spread it about. Something that the safety sheet says is not recommended.
Fitting the cam shaft seals was a little tricky as well, the rears went on quite easily but the front (black) ones just would not slip over the cam shafts, in the end I put them on the cam shafts the wrong way round and left them for a couple of hours after which they slipped on with help of a 30mm socket to keep them straight.

Work is now on hold while I wait for delivery of a set of exhaust studs and nuts to arrive as the originals are badly corroded.

I have checked with DMGRS and will be using the standard head bolt torque values of 20nm +180 + 180

David

For those watching this thread......

I have now reassembled all the head components, exhaust manifold was a doddle but the inlet manifold lower nuts are a challenge to say the least!

The only items not refitted are the expansion tank and the oil dip stick/filler as I noticed a little rust on the damper turret so I have ordered another bottle of Hydrate 80 to treat it.
So I am now back on track to replace the timing belt and do the full service. Because I spilled a little oil on the new timing belt which I had left hanging on the engine mount I am replacing that just to be 100% sure, I don't want to do this job again.

David

Sorry delayed response...

Started yesterday and after the normal clatter of the hydraulic tappets had calmed down I find that 1 (i hope) is still rattling. I had checked all of them but looks like I missed one, so not happy. I was a little concerned that fumes came from the exhaust side of the engine but that turned out to be burning off of spilled oil etc as it cleared after a few minutes.

Hopefully the tappet will settle down over a few miles testing, if not I will have to lift the cam carrier and remove the camshafts.

If I do that then I will replace all the tappets to be sure.
And then repeat all the work after the head gasket again. So I am very very unhappy!

David

The next day I purchased a can of Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment, which is the sort of product I normally treat as Snake Oil, but I thought if it works then it will save a lot of time.

Instructions say to add to warm engine, so started the engine and was pleased to hear no rattles, it seems the problem cleared itself overnight.

So I now have a £10 can of treatment on the shelf for future use.
Better than that I have a very happy wife (its her car) and some time on my hands to work on my own car.

David