Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted was created by Delbourt

Posted 5 days 14 hours ago #208849
There appear to be multiple responses to be found if trying to “search” on this topic so please accept an apology for raising this again.
I believe that the hoses that join the underfloor pipes are starting to fail. I believe this as occasionally the level in the expansion tank falls. If the clamps are tightened another turn and the tank topped the problem is resolved for many miles/days.
There are no signs of leaks on the floor, and no white smoke on start up, and no mayo in the oil whatsoever.

So, as this TF135 has the thermostat at the head rather than PRT would the panel of wise men recommended changing all hoses and converting to PRT, and if so how difficult is that, or would you stick with the existing arrangement with thermostat on the head?
I am of the opinion that on a high mileage car and changing just one or two hoses would be either pointless or irresponsible.
If changing hoses it gives an opportunity but if would not wish to try something that is not necessary or too difficult to sensibly achieved without expanding the work scope.

Suggestions please.
 

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Replied by Airportable on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 5 days 3 hours ago #208852
My thoughts on this topic were logged a short while ago & so it’s worth tracking that down.
Removing the block mounted thermostat was a pain & I could do it over my pit, although that could have been exacerbated by the VVC engine in my car.
David had some very useful information & I would guide you towards that as a starting point.
The PRT was introduced to abate the sudden inrush of cold water into a rapidly heating water jacket & I did my f at the earliest opportunity having studied the problem.
M

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Replied by MGB281 on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 5 days 2 hours ago #208853
A similar question was asked on another forum recently and the consensus of opinion was to leave as it is, the reason being that the problem was cured by the new head gasket design which by now virtually every car has now been fitted. If you Google "MGTF front mounted thermostat"  you will come across some very interesting thoughts on the subject, unusually well thought out ideas on the three options ie keep as is, PRT or front mounted. The idea of the front mounted thermostat was to have that large volume of cold water in the underfloor pipes constantly circulating in the warm up process so that when the thermostat opened only the  very small  amount of cold coolant in the radiator entered the system and even that was warmed up on its journey from front to rear. It was that large volume of cold water entering the system that was the cause of the thermal shock. I estimate that there is about three litres of coolant in those underfloor pipes so there is a bit of science to the idea. The downside is the longer warm up time for both the engine and the occupants.
by MGB281

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Replied by Cobber on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 4 days 22 hours ago #208861
I looked at the PRT "upgrade" and decided not to bother I'm going the do a major maintenance campaign soon and when I do I'll be going to Liquid Inteligence's waterless coolant and investigating the possibility of installing Davies Craig's programmable thematically controlled  electric water pump, as such there will be no need for a thermostat, because the temp will be regulated by the ECU controlling the flow of the pump. One of these set ups I happen to have laying about looking for a home!
There are many benefits of using these, such as for the waterless coolant:
Reduced cooling system  running pressure, so less risk of leaks, and less stress on hoses etc.
More efficient coolant heat exchange capacity.

And the EWP system's benefits are:
Ensuring quick warm up times, as the pump won't run until it's needed and even then the running speed will be able to ramp up gently to help avoid thermal shock.
Continued running when hot after engine switch off in order to gently and evenly bring the temp back down to reduce heat soak and stress.
The only problem being a lack of flow for heating/demisting, but this will be solved by fitting a separate smaller pump to provide flow for this purpose.

I have already binned the wimpy pathetic standard spec battery for the biggest, highest capacity bastard that will physically fit in the space provided so I don't see the current drain after switch off much of an issue.
And will consult with my auto elec mate Simon to see if we can coax a bit more grunt out of the alternator or perhaps find one of greater capacity that will either  fit or be forced to fit!
I don't do flat batteries!

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

by Cobber
The following user(s) said Thank You: David Aiketgate

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Replied by TA22GT on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 4 days 21 hours ago #208867
As a new TF owner do I have to look forward to the many coolant issues alloted to these cars..I'm finding that they have a lot of..errm..character shall we say..
by TA22GT

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Replied by Airportable on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 4 days 18 hours ago #208868
Don’t get in a flap about it, as long as you have a low coolant alarm, watch the temperature gauge, keep a GOOD quality cap on the reservoir & a spare. Keep an eye on the coolant.
If there’s any change address the problem immediately, you shouldn’t worry unduly.
As many will tell you, buy the time our cars have reached their grand old age, problem items should have been resolved & they were no worse than many other cars, some of which have become paragons of reliability.
Like some animals, they react to your nervousness; they make a special effort to cause grief.
M

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Replied by bluebae on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 1 day 10 hours ago #208892
What about flushing the system before deciding? Might help clear any gunk that could be causing issues.
by bluebae
The following user(s) said Thank You: R40MGF

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Replied by henrythompson on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 1 day 3 hours ago #208893
No problem at all. Given the symptoms, it sounds like you're dealing with minor leaks in the hoses. Since it's a high-mileage car, replacing all hoses is a sensible move to prevent future issues. Converting to a PRT system can improve cooling, especially for long-term reliability, but it's a bit more involved. If you're comfortable with the extra work and want better cooling efficiency, the PRT conversion is worth considering. Otherwise, sticking with the current setup and just replacing the hoses should suffice.

Thanks

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Replied by MGB281 on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 1 day 2 hours ago #208896
Cobber, I am interested in your experience with the Davies Craig EWP and the controller. I was going to fit a Pierburg one in my MGB with a V6 engine but it is too bulky to squeeze in, the Davies Craig is quite a bit smaller though. They seem to have changed the model number which presumably they have upgraded them as well as having upgraded the controller. Is there a good reason to choose the alloy pumps over the nylon ones? 
by MGB281
The following user(s) said Thank You: R40MGF

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Replied by Cobber on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 1 day 1 hour ago #208897
Davies-Craig are here in Melbourne they are constantly changing and improving their products and I've had excellent customer service from them, I've used their products since the early 70s
I've not used one off the alloy pumps I have used the nylon, I did have a problem with one that was second hand, they replaced it with a later improved version (better bearings I think) for free, no questions asked even though it would've been well out of warranty
I'll dig out the pump and controller over the next few days and tell you what models I've got.

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

Last Edit:1 day 1 hour ago by Cobber
Last edit: 1 day 1 hour ago by Cobber.
The following user(s) said Thank You: R40MGF, MGB281

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Replied by MGB281 on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 5 hours 7 minutes ago #208930
I had read that there were a few problems with the pumps, it was probably about fifteen years ago, then they brought out the alloy ones. I think most people would think "why make an alloy one if the nylon is okay" and as always you read about the problem ones that could be down to the installation rather than the pump itself, rarely do you read that I fitted X and it was faultless
by MGB281

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Replied by Cobber on topic Coolant hoses ~ PRT or Head Mounted

Posted 1 hour 56 minutes ago #208931
Yeah they had problems with the early ones and people mounting them rigidly, the ceramic bearings would fail with excessive vibration, you just better off mounting them in line on the bottom radiator hose just floating about on the hose to use the hose to insulate the pump from vibrations, no surprise to me but I'm used to ceramic bearings in industrial pumps.
The other thing is don't be tempted to run the pump dry, just to see if it works while you do the install. Above all do read and obey the instructions! Don't just wing it

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

by Cobber

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